From: "Peter Hearty" To: "George C. Hawkins" , , , References: <012401c0ed5a$cff78a80$1100a8c0@petya> Subject: Re: Future status of instantDB Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:54:03 +0100 George As you're probably aware, I'm no longer with Lutris, so I can't speak for them. However, what I can say is that I joined Lutris solely because they promised me that they intended to make InstantDB Open Source. When I left Lutris a few months ago it was my belief that they still intended to do so. If Lutris' policy on this has indeed changed then I sympathise with your feelings. No one will be more disappointed than me at such a decision. Keith - how about making the current position clear for us all? Best wishes Peter Hearty ----- Original Message ----- From: "George C. Hawkins" To: ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 1:58 AM Subject: Future status of instantDB > First let me say I'm not a rapid open source fanatic, if companies want > to develop and sell products using closed source that's fine with me > (I'm composing this on Windows 2000 and I've no access to its source > code but then I was never promised or expected such access). > > I do have a problem tho' with developing against something on the basis > of a promise that it would eventually become open source and then having > that promise broken. I hope this isn't the case with instantDB > > I'm not sure what instantDB's move from enhydra.org to Lutris central > means (along with the package renaming to lutris.org). Particularly after > looking at page > > http://www.lutris.com/products/projects/index.html > > Previously instantDB's licensing was undefined but it was made clear by > Peter Hearty and others at Lutris and Enhydra that it would soon become > a fully open source project. > > The link above now refers to a special license available for the source > code. If you follow the licensing link on the same page you're told > "We understand that some [technologies], for example InstantDB, are > highly valuable as separate standalone technologies and therefore we are > able to offer cost-effective and fully supported commercial ISV/OEM > licensing." > > There is no mention whatsoever of the long promised open source version > and the available download is being made available to "Evaluators & > Educators" and "Lutris Customers" - this sounds like purchasers, would > be purchasers and the educational community to me, no mention of the > community that contributed bug reports, etc. over the last year or so to > instantDB in the belief that it would be an open source rather than > commercial product (or that both an open source and commercial product, > featuring support etc., would be available side by side). > > If you'd looked (before the instantdb.enhydra.org site was taken down) > at pages such as the following you'd have felt pretty confident that if > you started working against instantDB an open source version would soon > be available. > > http://instantdb.enhydra.org/software/index.html > > > Lutris Technologies purchased InstantDB in April of 2000. The intent > > is to Open Source InstantDB in the near future, and create the most > > popular Open Source Java RDBMS. > > > http://instantdb.enhydra.org/software/cvs/index.html > > > Lutris Technologies purchased InstantDB in April of 2000. The intent > > is to Open Source InstantDB in the near future, and create the most > > popular Open Source Java RDBMS. Once that process has been > > completed, this page will lead you to the CVS tree for InstantDB. > > > The subject of the lack of appearance of such an open source version was > a common topic on the instantdb@enhydra.org mailing list and we were > continuously reassured that it was on its way right up until recently: > > Keith Bigelow - 15 Jan 2001 > > > We're hoping for Q2/01. InstantDB over the past few quarters has > > been integrated into the Enhydra Enterprise architecture, and this > > integration has delayed our ability to bring the product fully open > > source. With the completion of the integration, we expect to see it > > released under the EPL or a variant of the EPL. > > > Keith Bigelow - 22 Jan 2001 > > > We have legal commitments with IBM, Nortel and other global > > companies that have licensed InstantDB from Lutris. Thus, there > > should be no concern regarding either our commitment to the product > > or to the open source process for the product later this year > > [target Q2/early Q3]. > > > Peter Hearty - 2 Feb > > > I'm currently focusing all my efforts on readying InstantDB for its > > first open source version. > > > Peter Hearty - 28 April > > > Glad your finding IDB a useful tool. As to the source code? Lutris > > has us all waiting with baited breath... I'm honestly as much in the > > dark about that as everyone else. > > The last message dated 28 April, only a month ago, where Peter refers to > being "in the dark" I believed meant he was in the dark about a date for > instantDB going open source NOT about whether it would or not - this > being a now well established fact. > > The contents of the main Enhydra CVS repository still contain just the > class files from the previous, i.e. last Enhydra, version of instantDB: > > http://enterprise.enhydra.org/software/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/Projects/EnhydraOrg/platforms/EE/ser vices/Jdbc/modules/InstantDB/ > > The link on the Lutris documentation page to the license is currently > broken: > > http://www.lutris.com/products/projects/instantDB/software/license/instantDB.html > > Lutris has had the benefit of many developers working against instantDB, > tracking down and submitting bug reports and making other useful > contributions all for free on the basis that they were contributing to > what would ultimately be an open source project and that they would > eventually get to see (and contribute to via CVS) the source for this > product. > > This is something many of them would not have done if instantDB had been > marked as a close source project - WHICH IT WAS NOT. > > I really hope I'm taking this all wrong and that Lutris hasn't duped > lots of developers into using and contributing to instantDB under false > pretenses. I look forward to clarification from Lutris and Enhydra. > > Yours, > > > George C. Hawkins > > PS as the instantdb.enhydra.org site has been taken down some people > might like to see my extract of the site (taken from a Web cache > snapshot), containing any pages that contained the words "open" and > "source" or "opensource". I haven't had time to weed out any irrelevant > pages (ones with "open" somewhere and "source" somewhere else entirely) > but any evidence people need should be there. Catch it there before it > disappears in a Soviet style rewrite of history (only joking Lutris > guys I suspect you're good guys and this'll all be sorted out): > > http://instantdb.tripod.com/ > > Or if you live a pre HTTP/1.1 world: > > http://members.tripod.com/~instantdb/ > > > >